Covid-19 and safe travel

Caroline Pidgeon: What steps are you taking to ensure Londoners can travel in safety?

Caroline Pidgeon: Thank you very much, Chair. My question follows on from Assembly Member [Dr Alison] Moore’s. Mr Mayor, I recognise that measures are being taken by TfL to ensure the risks of spreading COVID-19 are reduced, and I wish to pay tribute to TfL staff and bus drivers, who are doing such an important job in such challenging circumstances.
I do think there are important further measures that must be taken to protect the public and staff, and managing and spreading demand on the transport network is key. I am wondering, have you considered introducing perhaps flexible fares to encourage people to start earlier in the morning, such as half-price travel before 7.30am, to ensure the morning peak is spread out more?

Sadiq Khan: Chair, firstly, can I just put on record my thanks to the staff. Assembly Member Pidgeon’s public message has been really supportive, and that message clarity has been really, really helpful, and I am really grateful. I really am.
We are exploring a number of these issues, but I have one hand tied behind my back because of the requirements from Government in relation to the options available to me on a number of issues. We are looking at the very issues she has raised about how we can ‘massage’ the people using public transport to give a carrot. Not now, because now we are still in lockdown. I am quite clear: we are still in lockdown. You should really be at home unless you have a very good reason not to be at home. You are right to ask me to explore what we do once lockdown has been lifted.
I can now reassure you that that work is being undertaken now so we will be as ready as we can be, should we in the future move to a phase where there is more of an easing of lockdown and we get to a stage where we are encouraging people outside of the rush hours to use public transport. She will be aware as an expert, 5.45am to 8.30am are difficult times, and about 4.00pm to 5.30pm are difficult times, and the other complication is if schools start returning as well, but we are exploring that. I am happy to have Deputy Mayor for Transport [Heidi] Alexander speak to CarolinePidgeon about some of the things because I know she takes a keen interest in this.

Caroline Pidgeon: Thank you very much. There are also peaks in demand on certain sections in the Tube network. Are you considering introducing additional express buses to ensure people can avoid perhaps the Tube in certain places and to help with social distancing?

Sadiq Khan: The problem at the moment is having the resources to provide the additional services. You will be aware of the deal the Government struck with us, which is just to keep us going for four and a half months to the end of September. I am not sure there is any flex there to provide more services with the money we have. I think the money we have is just to provide the services we were providing before the pandemic crisis, but if there is an opportunity, of course we will explore that. We are, by the way, using British Transport Police (BTP), our staff and stewards to try to signpost people away, but also she will be reassured to know we are speaking to the TOCs and the buses to make sure there is not decanting at the same time at certain pinch-points.

Caroline Pidgeon: That is good to hear. I think express buses even converting some existing routes has potential. Also, there is an issue where you could potentially increase bus capacity by using tourist buses. They are currently sitting unused, and of course they have open top decks; I am sure there would be fresh air on the top deck, and it would help with social distancing. Is that something you are also considering?

Sadiq Khan: No, we have not yet, because there would be a cost in hiring those buses. To give you an idea of the challenge, though, a normal double-decker bus takes 85 passengers. We are talking about 15 or 16 being a safe number. That gives you an idea of what reducing capacity to social distancing measures means. I am not sure we have the budget to hire these tourist buses, but we are exploring what we can do to increase capacity of public transport.
To avoid any confusion, the advice at the moment is to stay at home. We are still in lockdown. I do not want anybody to think they should go about using public transport. They really should not unless they have to, if they are an essential worker.

Caroline Pidgeon: Obviously, you are already telling people to avoid certain key stations, but the issue of serious air pollution in some London Underground stations - often magnified by poor ventilation and stagnant air - also needs to be looked at. A recent study by researchers at the National Institute for Health [Research] has found particles of coronavirus released simply by talking can remain in the air for eight to 14 minutes. There has also been a further study, though it has not been peer-reviewed yet, that shows that air pollution can help spread coronavirus through particles of pollution carrying the virus further afield. I am wondering what assurances you can give that every step is being taken to tackle air pollution across the Underground network and potentially whether you might take any precautionary measures to perhaps discourage the use of certain Tube stations.

Sadiq Khan: Thank you for the question. We actually are encouraging people not to use public transport, not to use the Tube, unless you really have to, and not just avoid certain stations but avoid certain parts of the day. We continue to be ahead of the science. You will be aware, Assembly Member Pidgeon, of the research we asked to be undertaken because of the concern raised around particulate matter in the Underground, different to the particulate matter that we see in sub-surface areas. We will continue to follow the science. Of course, we follow the latest research. If it is the case that we receive public health advice or research shows it is unsafe to do certain things, we will of course be open and transparent with Londoners. It is really important we do so.

Caroline Pidgeon: Thank you very much indeed.